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Thread: 2013 Carolina Panthers failed completions

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharrison09 View Post
    There's a lot of factors that make an offense effective.
    Shula isn't one of them. It probably wouldn't matter much who we had, if he's your OC expect dull and predictable.

  2. #12
    Actually i didn't even read ur article,,sorry if it seemed i was dismissing ur points,,wasn't intended..
    We had Louis Murphy and Keaolha Pilares in 012,, Reason i been pushing for a big receiver is I just fill Cam does better with tall guys. I fill he needs big targets,,i've seen Smitty shake his head when he couldn't reach a ball and for some reason Ginn wouldn't try for a ball over his head.. Cam is blessed with tons of talent but IMO accuracy isn't one of em,, sometimes he can be deadly and then next time he reminds me of Jake Delhome throwing high.. Murphy was 6'3'',,Cams rookie yr he had Legedu Naanee who was 6'2'' and Shockey at 6'5'' and he seems to hook up with Olson at 6'5'' consistently.. I believe if we get him some big targets he'll do better

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by koda View Post
    Actually i didn't even read ur article,,sorry if it seemed i was dismissing ur points,,wasn't intended..
    We had Louis Murphy and Keaolha Pilares in 012,, Reason i been pushing for a big receiver is I just fill Cam does better with tall guys. I fill he needs big targets,,i've seen Smitty shake his head when he couldn't reach a ball and for some reason Ginn wouldn't try for a ball over his head.. Cam is blessed with tons of talent but IMO accuracy isn't one of em,, sometimes he can be deadly and then next time he reminds me of Jake Delhome throwing high.. Murphy was 6'3'',,Cams rookie yr he had Legedu Naanee who was 6'2'' and Shockey at 6'5'' and he seems to hook up with Olson at 6'5'' consistently.. I believe if we get him some big targets he'll do better
    My thought as well which I have expressed before, I am all for slot 5'8 guys or guys that are smaller with a lot of skill like Cooks and would love it if he ended up here and don't get me wrong it is not about size at WR but this team has lacked big physical WR for a long time.

    Cam throws high but he is throwing to guys half a big as he is when your trying to throw over outreached arms on 6'4 to 6'6 D-lineman and now the secondary players are getting bigger, your going to need bigger targets. I know this shouldn't matter when it comes to throwing the ball but we all know sometimes it just sails, I have noticed the same thing Koda has and that Cam plays much better with bigger targets and that is why you have seen Olsen become one of his favorite targets. Who was the first person Cam turned to in the Atlanta game a 6'3 WR in McNutt for the one play he was out there.

    My wish out of this draft since it seems we are going to end up going status quo and most of the good FA WR are gone is that at the draft we grab a tall 6'3 - 6'5 WR with some good ball skills and then go smaller like Bruce Ellington, Mike Davis mid round or vice versa go small then go big mattering on what falls to us where. I would be satisfied if we went big with both, but right now on our current roster we have two spots open at WR yet to be filled.

    King 6-1, McNutt 6'2, Crotchery 6'1 & Underwood 6'1 that is our current roster who will probably be active come start of the season and yes I don't include Clemons, Pilares, Webb, or Bersin until they prove they can make the active roster first which so far in there careers they haven't been able to do with the exception of Pilares who has been on the roster since 2010 which he has been active before during our 2-14 season in 2010 but then put on the practice squad since and I am not looking for that to change this year if he makes the final roster at all.

    I could also see us taking one or two next off-season or draft if King, McNutt, or Underwood don't play well either this coming year when they get there shot.
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  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by panthergf View Post
    My thought as well which I have expressed before, I am all for slot 5'8 guys or guys that are smaller with a lot of skill like Cooks and would love it if he ended up here and don't get me wrong it is not about size at WR but this team has lacked big physical WR for a long time.

    Cam throws high but he is throwing to guys half a big as he is when your trying to throw over outreached arms on 6'4 to 6'6 D-lineman and now the secondary players are getting bigger, your going to need bigger targets. I know this shouldn't matter when it comes to throwing the ball but we all know sometimes it just sails, I have noticed the same thing Koda has and that Cam plays much better with bigger targets and that is why you have seen Olsen become one of his favorite targets. Who was the first person Cam turned to in the Atlanta game a 6'3 WR in McNutt for the one play he was out there.

    My wish out of this draft since it seems we are going to end up going status quo and most of the good FA WR are gone is that at the draft we grab a tall 6'3 - 6'5 WR with some good ball skills and then go smaller like Bruce Ellington, Mike Davis mid round or vice versa go small then go big mattering on what falls to us where. I would be satisfied if we went big with both, but right now on our current roster we have two spots open at WR yet to be filled.

    King 6-1, McNutt 6'2, Crotchery 6'1 & Underwood 6'1 that is our current roster who will probably be active come start of the season and yes I don't include Clemons, Pilares, Webb, or Bersin until they prove they can make the active roster first which so far in there careers they haven't been able to do with the exception of Pilares who has been on the roster since 2010 which he has been active before during our 2-14 season in 2010 but then put on the practice squad since and I am not looking for that to change this year if he makes the final roster at all.

    I could also see us taking one or two next off-season or draft if King, McNutt, or Underwood don't play well either this coming year when they get there shot.
    Well we agree on Big WR's from 6'3-6'5. If they are teachable and have a good catching radius by all means load up even in UDFA. I'm still up on WR Justin Jones too in 7th or UDFA from ECU. When you can pick up a guy like that who is 6'8 277lbs and benches 400 lbs you better take him just to see what he can do with some good coaching. IMO move him to TE beside LT. A guy that big and strong can keep up with a bull rush turn Benjamin, Bryant, Olsen, Jefferson and Williams loose in the End zone then slip Jones out.

    Yeah Red Zone would be 3 WR's and 3 TE's from 6'4-6'8 I like those odd's.
    Williams 6'4, Bryant 6'4, Olsen 6'5, Benjamin 6'5, Jefferson 6'6 and Jones 6'8, Then to get the ball down the field we have King 6-1, Crotchery 6'1 & Underwood 6'1, McNutt 6'2.
    Isn't fun to just throw players up and say what if.

    Benjamin and Jones played Slot WR and Jones doubled as a TE. The odd men out would be TE's Ricky Brockel 6'1 should be changed to FB, Mike McNeill 6'4 who was brought into block.

    So the draft should be fun. I still like Cooks and Campanaro. But Gettleman will pick best player.

  5. #15
    We don't know but we could already have our big guys on the roster so if a good slot guy falls to us i'd be ok with it.. If mcnutt or one of the other tall guys we have on the roster don't work out we can go big next yr.. It's easy to over think things and i get in trouble doing that sometimes. I trust in what Gettleman and Rivera come up with but come draft I'll have my hopes up for a big tall receiver.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by koda View Post
    We don't know but we could already have our big guys on the roster so if a good slot guy falls to us i'd be ok with it.. If mcnutt or one of the other tall guys we have on the roster don't work out we can go big next yr.. It's easy to over think things and i get in trouble doing that sometimes. I trust in what Gettleman and Rivera come up with but come draft I'll have my hopes up for a big tall receiver.
    I'm still very interested in seeing how McNutt has developed since being here. Really, the main thing he was lacking was more refined route running. He didn't become a receiver until his sop****re year in college, and made an instant impact, which is pretty impressive. I think he could have stolen the show from LaFell had he gotten the opportunity, and expect him to get his chance this season to be a starter. I know there's plenty of doubters, but I'm willing to eat crow on this guy if he's not a starter this season.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by koda View Post
    We don't know but we could already have our big guys on the roster so if a good slot guy falls to us i'd be ok with it.. If mcnutt or one of the other tall guys we have on the roster don't work out we can go big next yr.. It's easy to over think things and i get in trouble doing that sometimes. I trust in what Gettleman and Rivera come up with but come draft I'll have my hopes up for a big tall receiver.
    Slide back over to UDFA I added a few more.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Duane View Post
    Look I know you haven't been posting long and that's understandable, Koda and I screamed all year long to play McNutt, King and TE Williams.
    That didn't happen. I called for River Boat Ron to be fired and even though he got coach of the Year I'm still not sure we won't go back to a Conservative style of play. I want Les Miles from LSU who has a proven record of winning. Then I called for Shula's job and replace him with OC Clearance McKinney from Texas A&M who ran a balanced offense/defense but put up 632 yards in there bowl game.

    Then Cam averaged 505 yards total offense while at Auburn. You see Cam ain't the problem, Monster yards his rookie year with Jeremy Shockey being opposite Greg Olsen.
    Hello Huston we have a problem. WR's

    I gave Shula the benefit of the doubt that we had a WR problem and Rivera was sticking to the WR's he knew. Gettleman would never have made the comment that we don't know what a player can do unless they are on the field. Now I'm sure Gettleman coming in as a brand new GM didn't want to rock the boat the first year in. But know that he brought in talent we went 12-4 that he is putting his stamp on this team like I said months ago.

    But I'm glad you recognized the time of procession, balanced play calling, but the bottom line is points win games. Getting to the End zone and settling for 3 points don't cut it.

    Koda pointed out about the Box being loaded and it's been brought up so, so many times. You can not expect an O-line 5 guys to block 7 coming constantly. Our own defense proved it.

    Go back and watch film this last year and you can see Cam going through his reads, Gettleman, Rivera, Sports announcers all have said it.

    Now the statement Rivera said about just replacing 10 passes per game won't cut it. If that's the case you might as well cut Cam loose and just put Anderson in to hand off the ball or just go total Wide Cat.

    So IMO Ron Rivera will be hearing from Gettleman about those comments.
    See McDermott didn't have a problem rotating players, but for some reason Offense did. That's why I say things will change on the Offense.

    So with the O-line we have and WR's we have and picked up we have the 10 passes covered. Since we get a short field I figure it like this going back to Bear Bryant's formula for a winning team.
    Defense has more opportunities to score points. Defense creates turn overs. Short filed advantage from special team. Offense will make a mistake in less than 10 plays and the defense should recognize it and create the turn over.

    Our Offense on a short filed should be able to score in 5-8 plays well below 10 with a good balanced Offense and game plan.
    The offence we ran last season was never meant to put up huge yards in the air. With a top tier D all we asked the O to do was put up 15-20 points a game whilst giving the D time to rest, which I think is what they did. Given that we are unlikely going to be able to post a successful passing O this season with so many changes on OL and at WR. This will likely mean that we will likely run a similar O this season. We have brought in Russell who was part of the Rams coaching team during the Faulk era and he will likely help Shula better-utilize the WRs on the roster.

    Points do win games, but not letting points in also wins games. I think the O does need improvement, and I think playcalling is a large part of it, but we showed last year we can win games without a top tier O. The 49ers almost got to the SB with a "worse" passing O than us. The OL does need help, but that doesn't mean we have to be passing the ball for 400 yards a game, though that would be nice. Just by getting Silatolu back, a replacement for Gross and maybe upgrades at RG and RT we should be able to run the ball more effectively and Stewart's return can only help. The issue with lack of open receivers last season was mostly due to Lafell, he was unable to beat man-to-man coverage allowing teams to leave him on an island with their no2 or no3 CB. If we can get a big-bodied possession guy who can beat solo coverage consistently and a no3 guy to give us a vertical threat. On top of Olsen and Cotchery we should be able to pass the ball effectively when needed. I don't think Rivera was thinking about it in "Moneyball" terms but rather that we were able to have success without much of a passing attack so we don't need to produce a top-5 passing O to go to the play-offs. I do agree with you about rotating players on O, Shula was bad at that last season only using 3 receivers on almost every play. However, with the new face on the coaching staff I think that will hopefully change, but adding some more potent receivers than Lafell and Ginn would help.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by koda View Post
    Did I miss something? lol... I screamed the last half of the yr for other receivers to get some play time,,dang, when your receivers can't get it done then it hurts nothing to try other guys,,sure we didn't have anything except practice squad receivers but when the passing game is that bad I'd bring one or two up. We were winning and everybody kept telling me don't fix what ant broke,,,what they weren't seeing was that it was broke,, all it took was one playoff game to prove it.. Guys our passing game was pitiful last yr and I don't see how anybody dispute that.. I'm ready for the next WR legend. Sure hope they can find one to give us something close to what Smitty gave us and Im just saying ya ant gonna find him if ya don't make room and search.JMO
    I think what broke against the 49ers was that Steve looked and played hurt, Lafell was awful (I don't think anybody would have questioned giving him less playing time) and the OL struggled to protect Cam or open holes in the running game. The D was solid, but they gave away far too many penalties early on and the secondary wasn't able to cover all their receivers for 60 mins. I hope that I agreed with you when you said that players like Clemons, Williams and McNutt should get more playing time, I certainly think they could be no worse than Lafell. I don't think that the "legend" you are hoping for is in this class, but if we can build an otherwise solid O this season with a better OL and proper no2 and no3 WRs then we can add that no1 guy in 2015 or 2016.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharrison09 View Post
    Yes you missed the part where I said its not all about the WR, its about coaching and scheme. We had just about the same WR corp in 2011 when we ranked 7th in passing and 12th in 2012. So don't just put everything on the WR corp. There's a lot of factors that make an offense effective. Not just the wide outs.
    I don't think it was purely the WRs, but Lafell was pretty awful. In 2011 the passing game was carried by Steve and we had another receiving TE featuring heavily in Shockey. As much as I love Steve and I disagree with him being cut, I don't think he was quite the player he was a couple of years ago, and he was certainly being used in a more conservative fashion. I agree that the scheme had a lot to do with the lack of passing success, but I do think an upgrade at WR is needed.

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